Episode 16 – The Success Series | From Custom Marketing to 2–4x Bigger Cases

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In today's world, everybody's marketing.
I think if you're trying to do

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life-changing dentistry, you almost have
to. Now, we're starting to build that

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brand a little bit more. Um, and yeah,
that's 100% due to the marketing and

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just, you know, again, going back to
like MDA being willing to go back and

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change things and improve things and
update things. If I was to start a

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practice all over at any point in my
career, the very first thing I would do

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is go to a company like MBA and and
start that from day one. So I always,

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you know, see like when I'm talking to
folks, I try to impress upon them that

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you've had lots of marketing experience,
but the idea of of switching to a new

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company or getting involved in
marketing, it's a really long-term

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commitment. It's not like, oh, but it's
been three months or four months or six

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months, like things should be really
different. It's like, well, maybe. But

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then, uh, MJ and I know you talked about
this. you've had some some not so much

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long wins but long-term wins but short
wins like immediately implant campaign

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and and you got a bunch of big cases out
of that. So how do you how do you do you

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look at that as like part of the
long-term one or those are just like

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oneoffs that this kind of popped up with
those things? Uh like how do you how do

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you look at those like really really
fast like wins on big cases in your case

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big cases? I think I think everything
you do with any marketing company is

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you're you're playing the long game and
you're like making incremental

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improvements and adding more
testimonials and all these things and

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gathering more data as you do ads and
stuff. Um, you know, when we first when

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we started doing like a different
approach for the marketing or for the

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implants,
um, you know, I think there are some

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things that you can change that maybe do
make a a a big difference uh all at

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once. um but maybe like start to level
out over time. So um you know I think

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switching to you know a survey
campaign style that we did um I think it

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allowed us to like screen more people
and then as we put money into that so we

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had more people to screen and that's
kind of where we started to gather more

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uh these kind of bigger cases. I don't
think there's anything in marketing

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that's like the golden ticket. uh like
like you said, I mean I think a lot of

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people want that, but that's not the
case. But um you know, the way that we

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had set up our practice, it was really
about like how can we increase our

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leads, which they were able to do, and
then come up with a better, more

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hands-off screening system so that we
had more qualified leads that we were

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actually talking to. before I met NDI or
started working with them that that I

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felt like it was normal that to me it
was normal that when you go to a

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marketing company like they're the
experts this is how they do it and it's

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going to work for for you David so not
got stuck in a box but got stuck in a I

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was in a box and not ne as a bad box
it's just like here's their box and that

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one was different than the company I
used before it's the things they they

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did there wasn't a lot of of tailoring
it to me or that kind of stuff and then

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MBA behavior approach was to me was very
different which is which when once they

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talked to me about it it was like oh
like that makes a lot of sense like

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you're going to tailor it to me and then
once you tailor it to me can we change

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it can it be dynamic can we you know
change stuff and try stuff and do stuff

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as the business changes or are we just
going to try it you know just to see get

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more traction in different directions so
you've you've been with MBA a while

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would you say that that you've tried a
bunch of stuff with them um you know

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experiment with different things and and
by doing that you found some things work

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better than others um and you enjoy that
process or would you rather

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Yeah. Okay. So, talk just talk to me a
little bit about that approach.

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Yeah. I mean to me this is like where
MDA's

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strength is and why
Yeah. I have really enjoyed working with

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them more than other marketing companies
I have in the past is because they're so

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willing to try
new techniques, new ideas, new, you

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know, just um it could be a new kind of
campaign, it could be different wording

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in a campaign. Other companies that I've
worked with were just very like, you

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know, here's what we do for our other
clients and this is what we're going to

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do for you. So, it's just very
like no customization into it. Um, I I

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mean I am very hands-on in the
marketing. So, I'm always looking at

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things and and try and I'm I'm bring I
bring them ideas all the time like,

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"Hey, can we try this? What about this?"
I always get their feedback, you know,

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I've read something about this, like,
"Can we try it?" So, um, and they're

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always just like, "Yeah, let us do some
research. We'll put together a plan and

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we'll figure it out together." Uh, so I
mean that's been the biggest thing for

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me at MBA is like it's not tell the
marketing company, "Hey, this is what I

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want." and then like never talk to them
again. Like and I think that's what a

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lot of people I talk to their
frustration with marketing. That's what

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their expectations are. Um but it's
definitely a team approach. Like they're

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just another part of your team and you
have to treat them just like any other

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team member. Um so a lot of back and
forth. Um you know you're going to get

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as much out of it as you put into it uh
with any marketing. Uh but NDA is very

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receptive of that relation kind of
relationship whereas I don't know if

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other marketing companies really want
that. Honestly, I think they'd rather

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just take your money and and you just
forget about

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go away. Yeah.
Leave a voicemail.

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Yeah. Exactly.
When you you so you've tried different

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things, you show like you're really
really active with that approaching

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them. Um what's been your experience
about being accountable to your your

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requests? Like it sounds like they've
been um like they're open-minded to it

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and they get they get back to you. But
that was my experience. But that's just

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my experience. Like what's your
experience been? Yeah, I mean I really

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can't think of one thing um that they
told me like absolutely we we're not

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going to do that or we can't do that.
Um I mean everything they've been very

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receptive of. Um and you know some of
the stuff that we've tried that I have

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brought to their attention you know some
of it has worked out some of it hasn't

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worked out. So, um, but they're always
willing to try and, you know, they're

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always they're very good about like
saying, "Hey, like sometimes it's just

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about gathering data. We don't know
something's going to work in a month,

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two months. I mean, maybe three to six
months, you can start seeing some

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trends." So, I mean, all the projects
we've we've done together. I keep

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bringing them more stuff like a couple
times a year that we we start up or

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change.
Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And and my

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experiences with them was that they
enjoy that. Like they like

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Oh, 100%. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's that kind of like good

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challenge, new idea. Let's Yeah, let's
run.

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Well, I think it makes them better too
if they have if they work with doctors

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who are thinking outside the box in
terms of better or new ways to market,

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you know, gives them ideas that they
might be able to, hey, this is actually

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working great. Let's let's introduce
this to or let's uh talk to other

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doctors about it. And then, you know, it
builds up their reputation for, you

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know, going above and beyond and just
being high level.

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Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah,
you're absolutely right. Would you say

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like so you said two and a half years
ago you started with the NDA that my

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my my
learning I guess about that kind of

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marketing is that they're if they're
doing if their stuff is working the

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phone's going to ring or phone's going
to ring more. Doesn't mean I'm going to

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get more new patients. Doesn't mean I'm
going to get more cases. Doesn't mean

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I'm going to you know get more this more
that more money more anything. It just

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means the phone's going to ring more. So
like in the last two and a half years

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would you have you changed any any of
your internal systems processes whatever

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you do so that when people are calling
that more of them are scheduling you're

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you know you that the flow is better the
the sales process my word is better just

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talk about that
yeah I mean yeah you're 100% right um

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you know at the end of the day it really
comes down to like how well is your team

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handling phone calls and the new patient
leads that come through maybe online or

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forms, whatever it is. We've put in a
significant amount of time training our

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phone intake, you know, team members to
to be able to handle these at the

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highest level. Um, so we spend a lot of
time doing that. um we spend uh we've

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also had to because of some of these
changes we've done and we get almost too

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many calls that we can handle at this
point which is a good problem but we've

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had to be more strict on on our
screening about who actually gets into

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the practice. Um we've kind of run out
of room for all the new patients who are

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trying to call and get in. So now we're
trying to screen more about who, you

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know, who really fits our philosophy,
our, you know, what what we feel like

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we're really good at. Um, so I think
that's one of the biggest reasons why,

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you know, we've allowed we've we've
evolved to maybe do more surgery and

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cosmetics and some of these things that,
you know, I really wanted to focus on,

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um, is because we're seeing more of this
kind of patients in the office who need

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that kind of stuff. But that goes back
to again like how many times the phone's

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ringing, having great conversations uh
with those patients about what their

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true needs are and their goals are. Um
and then getting them, you know, getting

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them scheduled the right way as a new
patient.

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I I know you and I have known each other
for a while. So it's so good to hear

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that you know you're all that stuff is
like in place falling into place more

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more kind of cases and the phone's
ringing more. or you said like almost

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too much, but at the same point in time
that's like everybody's office. Like if

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you try to be all things, all people,
you're going to have way too much stuff.

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So you've really kind of narrowed down
to with the niche and the culture that

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you want. That's awesome. Uh
would you say that that maybe maybe

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because of the marketing or because of
the message that ideas you've come up

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with and NBA's come up with that when
people call because of the marketing

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that you're doing that they're they're
more in line with who you are and what's

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what what you're all about so that so
that that they can maybe go from you

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know home plate to first base or second
base faster because of that because of

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the NBA marketing stuff you're doing. Is
that part of that or

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Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And that's um
something really big that we're we're

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working on this year is like really
trying to refine, you know, what our

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message is that patients are are seeing
from our website or ads or, you know,

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testimonial videos or whatever it is is
really trying to refine that to be like,

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hey, this is who we are. You know, if
you have a mouthful of problems, you

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know, we're your we're your people to to
fix that, whether it's implants,

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cosmetics.
um and less about like, hey, we're your

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family dentist that sees everything and
wants to do everything. So, um that's

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been ongoing, but I'd say in the last
six to nine months since we really

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started to refine that message online,
we have seen the changes where, you

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know, we're getting in people who
already kind of know us for these

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things, which is great. You know, that
was the ultimate goal. It's like we're

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starting to build that brand a little
bit more. Um, and yeah, that's 100% due

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to the marketing and just, you know,
again, going back to like MDA being

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willing to go back and change things and
improve things and update things. Um,

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and then just keep adding the reviews,
the testimonials, um, you know, more,

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you know, refine images or videos on our
implant landing pages or whatever it is.

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So, uh, I mean, that that's been key for
sure. Yeah, it sounds like I just kind

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what you just said was that you're
adding this, adding that and that. Would

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you say the ideas of adding that stuff
is coming solely from MDA? It's coming

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solely from you. It's a combination of
them approaching you and saying it'd be

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great if
both.

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Yeah, both. Yeah. Right.
Yeah, definitely both. I mean, again,

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I'm I'm very hands-on, so I I go to them
with a lot of ideas, but um I mean, when

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we have our uh check-in calls every once
in a while, they'll be like, "Hey, this

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is working for somebody else." or hey,
this is something that know we've talked

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about in the past and they'll make
recommendations. So, yeah.

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And I felt like when I was using MBA
that I was like I love your terms like

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you were very hands-on. I felt like I
was too in the sense that I'm curious

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what you mean by that because for me
that meant I was very involved with it

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like I was thinking about it. I was
curious about this. I was throwing ideas

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but that didn't take much much of my
time to do that. I wasn't getting the

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videos myself. I wasn't getting the
testimony myself. I wasn't doing a lot

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of the the behind the scenes work on it.
It was more just the idea, the thoughts,

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the just And so is that when you say
hands-on, that's what is or you find

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your hands-on part is takes up quite a
bit of your time as well or is it more

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intellect?
Yeah, I mean it's more like the high

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higher level like visionary kind of
thinking about your marketing more

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hands-on than it is like
you know my team does all the hard work.

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They're getting the testimonials.
they're getting the reviews, you know, I

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don't even know how to post the half the
stuff that I have. So, um it's really

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just like thinking like, hey, whether,
you know, looking at the numbers, what

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are our trends, reporting that data back
to, uh MDA and calls about, hey, why

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don't we go this direction or why don't
we try this. So, yeah, it's it's

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hands-on in the sense that I'm involved
in the big level decisions and ideas

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about our marketing, but not the actual
troops on the ground.

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Yeah.
So maybe a last question and this maybe

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because I know you always somebody who's
very very uh financially fiscally

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uh very good steward maybe leaning more
towards the frugal side of that of

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spending uh on the practice and on the
practice on the business or so if you if

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you if you look at that investment or or
like the expense whatever word you want

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to choose I'd say investment in hiring
MDA I mean it's not cheap I'm not sure

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what cheap is. But you know, if you're
going to spend 40, 50, 60, $70,000,

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whatever it is for a marketing company
or more, how do you how do you in your

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mind
not not justify that, but you look at

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that and say the return on return on
that investment is enough that allows

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you to go year do more more.
I mean, it's to me, it's a no-brainer.

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If you got 20,000 patients and you're
one doctor, then yeah, maybe you don't

00:14:11.920 --> 00:14:18.800
need to market or spend money doing
that. But uh but if you in today's

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world, everybody's marketing, I think if
you're trying to do life-changing

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dentistry, you almost have to now. So to
me, it's like I think investment is a

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better term. I don't see it as an
expense. Like it's something that just

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has to be done to have the kind of to
build the kind of practice that we're

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trying to build. So, I mean, if I was to
start a practice all over at any point

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in my career, the very first thing I
would do is go to a company like MDA and

00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:48.959
and start that from day one and start
putting a lot of money into that.

00:14:46.560 --> 00:14:54.240
You know, not a statistical thing, but
if you said you're really focusing on

00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:58.160
larger cases, you said a cool phrase,
life-changing dentistry. So, that's

00:14:55.839 --> 00:15:01.519
really larger cases. So, in the last,
you know, two and a half, three years or

00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:07.120
so, MDA was a big part of it. Would you
say that your the number of your larger

00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:11.600
cases has has has you know gone up by
50%. It's doubled. It's tripled. It's

00:15:09.839 --> 00:15:13.760
like what what's sort of like off the
cuff?

00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:17.199
Two to 4x.
Yeah. Awesome. In a pretty short time,

00:15:15.839 --> 00:15:18.720
right? I mean, two and a half to three
years goes by.

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.199
Yeah.
Pretty fast.

00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:24.880
Yeah. I mean, and that's that's the the
fun and the challenging part of it, too,

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.079
is sometimes it's uh maybe a little bit
too much all at one time, and you're

00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:32.720
still trying to figure out some of the
the kinks in your own protocols and and

00:15:31.040 --> 00:15:34.000
labs and all that. So,
Sure.

00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.680
Um,
a good problem.

00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.639
That's fun.
Yeah. Yeah. You want That's a good

00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:42.160
problem. You want to solve those
problems,

00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:46.399
right? Yeah. Awesome. Anything else? if
you were uh you know if you're on the

00:15:43.760 --> 00:15:49.279
fence about uh either getting involved
with a marketing company or switching

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:53.519
marketing companies is there anything
that that strikes out I mean your story

00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:59.040
something that from you your standpoint
that you know I wish I'd found MDA

00:15:55.839 --> 00:16:02.160
sooner than I did because this is what
they did for me

00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:07.279
yeah I went through a couple marketing
agencies before I I found MDA and yeah

00:16:04.880 --> 00:16:12.720
100% I wish I I'd started started with
them day one I bought my practice um we

00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:17.120
likely would be uh even further along
than than we are now. So, another thing

00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:22.880
I love about them too is like everyone
you talk to there is like so friendly.

00:16:20.079 --> 00:16:28.240
Um they you feel like they actually care
about what's the successes you're having

00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:32.639
your practices and they also are
extremely good about getting back with

00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:36.000
you and confirming, hey, I've received
this email. Hey, I passed this along.

00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:41.920
We're going to get back. We're going to
research this whatever it is. So like

00:16:37.680 --> 00:16:46.160
their communication is um is is amazing
and that's not the case for most

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:49.519
companies, especially dental companies
that you work with, especially marketing

00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:52.880
companies. So that's something I've
really appreciated about them as well.

00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:56.560
Yeah, that was always my experience,
too. They're so so accountable to they

00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:59.680
say they're going to do something, they
they really do it. Yeah. In the talent

00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:02.560
form we're talking about. Yeah. In a
thoughtful way. Anything else that that

00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:06.720
you wanted to tell the universe about
MDA? No, I mean I'd say if you're

00:17:05.360 --> 00:17:10.240
considering marketing a company, you
just you really can't go wrong with

00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:13.360
them. Um they can do everything. They're
open to everything. Like I said, I would

00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:17.520
if I would start a new practice, first
thing I would do is would be to hire

00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:20.640
them and then you know just you know you
have to put mark you have to put your

00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.360
own energy and thought and time and
money into marketing or you know

00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:27.679
nothing's going to happen. Doesn't
matter who that is. So um yeah, it's a

00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:31.160
team effort.
Awesome. Cool.